I'm looking for a suitable cross-platform web framework (if that's the proper term). I need something that doesn't rely on knowing the server's address or the absolute path to the files. Ideally it would come with a (development) server and be widely supported.
I've already tried PHP, Django and web2py. Django had an admin panel, required too much information (like server's address or ip) and felt unpleasant to work with; PHP had chown and chmod conflicts with the server (the code couldn't access uploaded files or vice versa) and couldn't handle urls properly; web2py crashed upon compiling and the manual didn't cover that -- not to mention it required using the admin panel. Python is probably the way to go, but even the amount of different web frameworks and distributions for Python is too much for me to install and test individually.
What I need is a simple and effective cross-platform web development language that works pretty much anywhere. No useless admin panels, no fancy user interfaces, no databases (necessarily), no restrictions like users/access/levels and certainly no "Web 2.0" crap (for I hate that retronym). Just an all-powerful file and request parser.
I'm used to programming in C and other low level languages, so difficulty is not a problem.
This question is based on a complete failure to understand any of the tools you have apparently "investigated", or indeed web serving generally.
Django has an admin panel? Well, don't use it if you don't want to. There's no configuration that needs to be done there, it's for managing your data if you want.
PHP has chown problems? PHP is a language, not a framework. If you try and run something with it, you'll need to set permissions appropriately. This would be the case whatever language you use.
You want something that doesn't need to know its address or where its files are? What does that even mean? If you are setting up a webserver, it needs to know what address to respond to. Then it needs to know what code to run in response to a request. Without configuring somewhere the address and the path to the files, nothing can ever happen.
In web2py you do not need to use the admin interface. It is optional.
Here is how you create a simple app from zero:
wget http://web2py.com/examples/static/web2py_src.zip
unzip web2py_src.zip
cd web2py/applications
mkdir myapp
cp -r ../welcome/* ./
Optional Edit your app
emacs controllers/default.py
emacs models/db.py
emacs views/default/index.html
...
(you can delete everything in there you do not need).
Now run web2py and try it out
cd ../..
python web2py.py -i 127.0.0.1 -p 8000 -a chooseapassword &
wget http://127.0.0.1:8000/myapp/default/index.html
When you edit controller/default.py you have a controller for example
def index():
the_input = request.vars # this is parsed from URL
return dict(a=3,b=5,c="hello")
You can return a dict (will be parsed by the view with same name as action) or a string (the actual page content). For example:
def index():
name = request.vars.name or 'anonymous'
return "hello "+name
and call
wget http://127.0.0.1:8000/myapp/default/index?name=Max
returns
'hello Max'
/myapp/default/index?name=Max calls the function index, of the controller default.py of the application in folder applications/myapp/ and passes name=Max into request.vars.name='Max'.
I think you need to be more specific about what you want to achieve, and what kind of product(s) you want to develop. A "no setup required" product may come with tons of auto-configuration bloat, while a framework requiring a small setup file could be set up in minutes, too, with much more simplicity in the long run. There is also always going to be some security and access rights to be taken into consideration, simply because the web is an open place.
Also, a framework supporting Web 2.0ish things doesn't have to be automatically a bad framework. Don't throw away good options because they also do things you don't like or need, as long as they allow you to work without them.
PHP had chown and chmod conflicts with the server (the code couldn't access uploaded files or vice versa) and couldn't handle urls properly;
PHP is not a framework in itself, it's a programming language. I don't know which PHP-based framework or product you tried but all the problems you describe are solvable, and not unique to PHP. If you like the language, maybe give it another shot. Related SO questions:
What PHP framework would you choose for a new application and why?
What’s your ‘no framework’ PHP framework?
If you need something that runs everywhere (i.e. on as many servers as possible) PHP will naturally have to be your first choice, simply because it beats every other platform in terms of cheap hosting availability.
If I were you, I wouldn't limit my options that much at this point, though. I hear a lot of good things about Django, for example. Also, the Google App engine is an interesting, scalable platform to do web work with, supporting a number of languages.
Werkzeug:
import werkzeug
#werkzeug.Request.application
def app(request):
return werkzeug.Response("Hello, World!")
werkzeug.run_simple("0.0.0.0", 4000, app)
You can optionally use werkzeug URL routing (or your own, or anything from any other framework). You can use any ORM or template engine for Python you want (including those from other Python frameworks) etc.
Basically it's just Request and Response objects built around WSGI plus some utilities. There are more similar libraries available in Python (for example webob or CherryPy).
What I need is a simple and effective cross-platform web development language that works pretty much anywhere.
Have you tried HTML?
But seriously, I think Pekka is right when he says you need to specify and clarify what you want.
Most of the features you don't want are standard modules of a web app (user and role mgmt., data binding, persistence, interfaces).
We use any or a mix of the following depending on customer requirements: perl, PHP, Flash, Moonlight, JSP, JavaScript, Java, (D/X)HTML, zk.
I am python newbie but experienced PHP developer for 12 years but I have to admit that I migrated to python because of the bottle framework. I am African so you don't have to be extra smart to use it... Give it a try, you'll love it. Hey and it also runs on appspot with no config!
Install python
Download bottle.py (single file)
Create
#your file name : index.py
from bottle import route, run
#route('/')
def index():
return 'jambo kenya! hakuna matata na bottle. hehehe'
run()
Sit back, sip cocoa and smile :)
I'd say Ruby on Rails is what you're looking for. Works anywhere, and no configuration needed. You only have it installed, install the gems you need, and off you go.
I also use ColdFusion, which is totally multi-platform, but relies on the Administrator settings for DSN configuration and stuff.
TurboGears: Everything optional.
Give bottle a try. I use it for my simple no-frills webapps. It is very intuitive and easy to work with in my experience.
Here is some sample code, and it requires just bottle.py, no other dependencies.
from bottle import route, run
#route('/')
def index():
return 'Hello World!'
run(host='localhost', port=8080)
Just stumbled upon Quixote recently. Never used it though.
Use plain old ASP. IIS does not care where files are stored. All paths can be set relative from the virtual directory. That means you can include "/myproject/myfile.asp", whereas in PHP it's often done using relative paths. Global.asa then contains global configuration for the application. You hardly ever have to worry about relative paths in the code.
In PHP you'd have include(dirname(FILE) . '/../../myfile.php") which is of course fugly. The only 'solution' I found for this is making HTML files and then using SSI (server side includes).
The only downside to ASP is the availability, since it has to run on Windows. But ASP files just run, and there's not complex Linux configuration to worry about. The language VBScript is extremely simple, but you can also choose to write server side JavaScript, since you're familiar with C.
I think you need to focus on Restful web applications. Zend is a PHP based MVC framework.
Related
I want to use server-side includes so I can include header and footer files on my personal portfolio. I've been using the Python SimpleHTTPServer because I had the command handy, so I know how to run it.
My server-side includes don't currently work. My understanding is that, based on this article, I would need to configure my SimpleHTTPServer to allow for server-side includes. I haven't been able to find this information anywhere, so I'm thinking that I need to I use a different web server. Can someone clarify?
If I have to use a different web server, I'd love to hear any suggestions. I'm a noob so something simple would be great. Also, it'd be helpful if you could provide: (1) any good tutorials for making any of the necessary config changes so I can run SSI; (2) the command I run to start the server (so I can make an alias). I looked briefly at Apache stuff, but seems very intimidating. I'm wondering if there is a more noob-friendly way. I'm trying to build a personal portfolio, not do anything crazy.
Thanks for your help!
I found ssi-server by Googling for "ssi python". It says it provides "Server Side Includes in Python's SimpleHTTPServer" and looks like it might work for you.
Do you have to use Server Side Includes? Since you're using python, there are lot of options for doing this kind of functionality. For example, you could just use python's string manipulation to join the files together (e.g. with the str.format method). Or you could use a templating language like jinja2, mako, etc.
What SSI features are you depending on? Or do you have some existing SSI files that you want to use as-is?
I have an idea for a web app and plan to learn Python as I go (right now I know html/css, some javascript, some php and sql). The app would be able to manipulate and analyze audio files, among other things.
Ideally, I'd like to make the app available through my wordpress site so that I can take advantage of WordPress's login management and the plugin s2member's subscription management and content restriction capabilities.
Is that possible? Would it even make sense?
If not, is there a better alternative to automate all of that (the subscription management, logins, payment processing, content restriction, etc) without having to code it myself?
I suggest you develop a REST API in Python and extend your Wordpress site to consume that API.
For the Python side, you could go with Flask and use Flask-RESTful.
For the Wordpress side, have a look at this question.
Sure, if you meet a couple of conditions:
The server your wordpress site is on also has python
And you have the ability run arbitrary python scripts on said server.
Here's a (very contrived) example of how to do it from a plugin:
call-python.php (plugin file):
<php
/*
Plugin name: Call Python
Author:..
....
*/
$pyScript = "/path/to/app.py";
exec("/usr/bin/python $pyScript", $output);
var_dump($output);
And the python script app.py:
print("Hello, World")
And that's it! That will dump Hello, world to the body. Obviously you'll need a bit more for a more complicated python app, but it will work.
Like others are saying, there may be better "more correct" ways of doing it. But if your end goal is to run a python app from WordPress it's possible.
I was watching the tutorials for python and the guy told that he coded the Address books and spell checker for yahoo mail in python.
Now initially i was thinking that if i build the website then i have to use one language either php or java or asp or anything.
But i am confused how can we make make separate modules in diff languages and combine to make one website
Any ideas
Phisical architecture of web application can be different from the logical one visible through browser. Basically it is achieved by putting front web server (think of apache with mod_proxy, but it can be any other moder web server supporting reverse proxying) and mounting web application servers (java/python/whatever) to different paths (like /app1 for java app, /app1/subapp for python app, /app2 for php app). Of course those applications work independently by default, so if you want to pass some data between you have to establish some communication between (direct socket-to-socket or indirect with some messaging middleware or database).
In general it is very broad topic, so if you're interested, try with some basic keywords: application servers, load balancing, reverse proxy, url rewriting.
You can use any language to provide a web service, so you can for example provide a REST/SOAP web service that returns JSON or XML. The web service can be written in any language, and the language used to interact with the web service can be any language, as all languages nowadays have JSON and XML parsers.
You can setup different subdomains to be used by different servers and setup those applications in any language you'd like.
I know in Ruby on Rails, you can execute bash commands.
Example: puts ls
If you just need to call simple scripts from PHP, you can of course use exec(). I use it quite often to be able to code something in ruby, which I prefer for non-web tasks, and call the ruby script from PHP (it can of course be done the other way round).
If they're different pages, they can easily be created by different software. So if a mail application written in Java offers a link to an address book, the address book can easily be Python--that's just a matter of configuring the server.
If you need an addressbook component within the mail application, that's a bit more complicated, but still doable. Especially with Java and .NET it's possible to run various languages on the same platform (e.g. Jython and Ironpython run Python on the JAVA and .NET VMs respectively).
But i am confused how can we make make separate modules in diff languages and combine to make one website
Please read this: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/sections.html
Then read this: http://php.net/manual/en/configuration.changes.php
Then read this: http://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/
Then read this: http://www.modruby.net/en/
Then read this: http://tomcat.apache.org/
Apache can support a large number of languages via plug-in modules.
Using mod_rewrite as well as the fundamental "section" definitions available in Apache, you can separate your URI's into separate modules in different languages.
I know that with the SimpleHTTPServer I can make my directories accessible by web-browsers via Internet. So, I run just one line of the code and, as a result, another person working on another computer can use his/her browser to see content of my directories.
But I wander if I can make more complicated things. For example, somebody uses his/her browser to load my Python program with a set of parameter (example.py?x=2&y=2) and, as a result, he/she sees the HTML page generated by the Python program (not the Python program).
I also wander if I can process html form submitted to the SimpleHTTPServer.
While it is possible, you have to do pretty much everything yourself (parsing request parameters, handle routing, etc).
If you are not looking to get experience in creating web-frameworks, but just want to create a small site you should probably use a minimalistic framework instead.
Try Bottle, a simple single-file web framework: http://bottlepy.org
Maybe the VerseMatch project and related recipes over at ActiveState is something you would be interested in examining? It implements a small application using the standard library for dynamic running.
have you considered using CGIHTTPServer instead of SimpleHTTPServer? Then you can toss your scripts in cgi-bin and they'll execute. You have to include content-type header and whatnot but if you're looking for quick and dirty it's real convenient
I'm just starting out with Python and have practiced so far in the IDLE interface. Now I'd like to configure Python with MAMP so I can start creating really basic webapps — using Python inside HTML, or well, vice-versa. (I'm assuming HTML is allowed in Python, just like PHP? If not, are there any modules/template engines for that?)
What modules do I need to install to run .py from my localhost? Googling a bit, it seems there're various methods — mod_python, FastCGI etc.. which one should I use and how to install it with MAMP Pro 1.8.2?
Many thanks
I think probably the easiest way for you to get started is to work with something like Django. It's a top-to-bottom web development stack which provides you with everything you need to develop and run a backend server. Things can be very simple in that world, no need to mess around with mod_python or FastCGI unless you really have the need.
It's also nice because it conforms to WSGI, which is a Python standard which allows you to plug together unrelated bits of reusable code to add specific functionality to your web app when needed (say for example on-the-fly gzip compression, or OpenID authentication). Once you have outgrown the default Django stack, or want to change something specific you can go down this road if you want.
Those are a few pointers to get you started. You could also look at other alternative frameworks such as TurboGears or paste if you wanted but Django is a great way to get something up and running quickly. Anyway, I'm sure you'll enjoy the experience: WSGI makes it a real joy knocking up web apps with the wealth of Python code you'll find on the web.
[edit: you may find it helpful to browse some of the may Django related questions here on stack-overflow if you run into problems]
You asked whether HTML is allowed within Python, which indicates that you still think too much in PHP terms about it. Contrary to PHP, Python was not designed to create dynamic web-pages. Instead, it was designed as a stand-alone, general-purpose programming language. Therefore you will not be able to put HTML into Python. There are some templating libraries which allow you to go the other way around, somewhat, but that's a completely different issue.
With things like Django or TurboGears or all the other web-frameworks, you essentially set up a small, stand-alone web-server (which comes bundled with the framework so you don't have to do anything), tell the server which function should handle what URL and then write those functions. In the simplest case, each URL you specify has its own function.
That 'handler function' (or 'view function' in Django terminology) receives a request object in which interesting info about the just-received request is contained. It then does whatever processing is required (a DB query for example). Finally, it produces some output, which is returned to the client. A typical way to get the output is to have some data passed to a template where it is rendered together with some HTML.
So, the HTML is separated in a template (in the typical case) and is not in the Python code.
About Python 3: I think you will find that the vast majority of all Python development going on in the world is still with Python 2.*. As others have pointed out here, Python 3 is just coming out, most of the good stuff is not available for it yet, and you shouldn't be bothered about that.
My advise: Grab yourself Python 2.6 and Django 1.1 and dive in. It's fun.
Django is definitely not the easiest way.
check out pylons. http://pylonshq.com/
also check sqlalchemy for sql related stuff. Very cool library.
On the other hand, you can always start with something very simple like mako for templating. http://www.makotemplates.org/