Develop Reference

A blocking equivalent to Tornado?

I've been working with Tornado and have gotten very used to it's overall style and syntax. Currently, I would like to write a website (in Python) that does not require the asynchronous, non-blocking capabilities of Tornado. Obviously, I can use frameworks like Django or Pylons, but I was wondering if there was a particular Python setup that would most closely resemble Tornado but be blocking, rather than non-blocking.
Note: I've been experimenting with Django, but I feel as if it is a bit heavy-weighted for my current needs. What I liked about Tornado was its relative simplicity and flexibility while still being capable of scaling nicely should that become a concern. (Maybe I just need to keep plugging away with Django until I've become totally accustomed to it, but that's outside the realm of this question.)
Also note: I am not looking for a subjective opinion, rather, I am looking for someone to suggest, based on experience with the different Python frameworks (which I am lacking), similar design setups to Tornado.
Thanks.

Turbo gears 2 looks promising as it has been built on top of the experience of several next generation web frameworks including TurboGears 1, Django, and Rails
Turbo gears 2

My favorite "minimal" frameworks are:
Flask http://flask.pocoo.org/docs/ and Pyramid http://www.pylonsproject.org/.
Big difference to tornado is that they are WSGI (hence blocking) and have lots of web-site-like plugins for the things you need to do deploying web-sites.
Flask has lots of examples around and is really easy to start with.
wish you fun

I've also used Tornado and CherryPy web framework looks pretty 'similar' to Tornado: very easy to use, intuitive and very pythonic too. CherryPy is blocking by default (and I think is the only way to use it). Hope it helps you.
Cheers!

Which way to go with twisted and web-programming?

So, I programmed this twisted application a few months ago, which I now would like to extend with a web-based user interface for configuration.
The Twisted website recommends Nevow, but I am not really sure if this is a good choice. Their website is down for a while it seems and their launchpad page hadn't seen any update in half a year. Is this project dead?
Additionally I have seen discussion of moving parts of Nevow into twisted.web on the twisted-web mailinglist. So, is it still recommended for new developments?
Another idea was using Django. I would need user authentication and permissions anyway in the config-interface, and I am quite familiar with it. (I have never worked with Nevow or twisted.web)
But it seems quite difficult to interface both worlds, all I could find were examples of running Django with WSGI in Twisted.
Are there any other possibilities to have a slick looking user interface on top of twisted?

First, let me address the perception that Nevow is dead. The launchpad project containing the code for Nevow (and the rest of the Divmod projects) is divmod.org on launchpad. A hardware failure has badly impacted the project's public presence, but it's still there, and other things (like the wiki and the tickets) are in the process of being recovered. There isn't a lot of active maintenance work going on right now, but that's mostly because it's good enough for most of its users; there are lots of people who depend on Nevow and would be very upset if it stopped working. Those people have the skills and experience necessary to continue maintaining it. So, while it's not being actively promoted right now, I think it's unlikely that it's going to go away.
My long-term hope for Nevow would be as follows. (I'd say "plan", but since I haven't been actively involved with its maintenance lately, this is really up to those who are.) First, I'd like to extract its templating facilities and move them into twisted.web. The clean, non-deprecated API for Nevow is mostly covered by nevow.page.Element and the various loaders. Twisted itself wants to generate HTML in a few places and these facilities could be useful. Then we should throw out the "appserver" and resource-model parts of Nevow. Those are mostly just a random collection of bugfixes or alterations for twisted.web, most of which were present in some form in twisted.web2 and will therefore either be rolled back into twisted.web anyway, or have already been applied there. Finally there's the question of Athena. While two-way communication is one of Twisted's strengths, Athena is itself a gigantic, sprawling JavaScript codebase and should probably remain its own project.
Third, on to the main question, given this information, what should you do now?
Generally speaking, I'd say, "use nevow". The project has some warts, it needs more documentation and its API needs to be trimmed to eliminate some old and broken stuff, but it's still quite useful and very much alive. To make up for the slightly sparse documentation, you can join the #divmod or #twisted.web channels on Freenode to get help with it. If you help out by contributing patches where you can, you will find that you'll get a lot of enthusiastic help there. When you ignore the deprecated parts Nevow has a pretty small, sane, twisted friendly API. The consequence of the plan for Nevow's evolution that I outlined above are actually pretty minimal. If it even happens at all, what it means for you is, in 1-5 years, when you upgrade to a new version of Twisted, you'll get a couple of deprecation warnings, change some import lines in your code from from nevow.page import ...; from nevow.loaders import ... to some hypothetical new thing like from twisted.web.page.element import ...; from twisted.web.page.templates import ..., or somesuch. Most of the API past that point should remain the same, and definitely the high-level concepts shouldn't change much.
The main advantage that you get from using Nevow is that it's async-friendly and can render pages in your main thread without blocking things. Plus, you can then get really easy COMET for free with Athena.
You can also use Django. This is not quite as async-friendly but it obviously does have a broader base of support. However, "not as async friendly" doesn't mean "hard to use". You can run it in twisted.web via WSGIResource, and simply use blockingCallFromThread in your Django application to invoke any Twisted API that returns a Deferred, which should be powerful enough to do just about anything you want. If you have a more specific question about how to instantiate Twisted web resources to combine Twisted Web and Django, you should probably ask it in its own Stack Overflow question.

Nevow is still a good choice if you want support for Deferreds in the templating system you use (it's not dead). It also has a few advantages over plain Twisted Web when it comes to complicated URL dispatch. However, it is basically just a templating system. Twisted Web is the real web server. So either way, you're going to use Twisted Web. In fact, even if you use Django in Twisted Web's WSGI container, you're still going to use Twisted Web. So learning things about Twisted Web isn't going to hurt you.
If you're going to be generating any amount of HTML, then you very much want to use an HTML templating library. By this point no one should be constructing HTML using primitive string operations. So if you want to use one of the other Python HTML templating libraries out there - Cheetah, Quixote, etc - instead of Nevow, that's great! You're just going to use the templating library to get a string to write out in response to an HTTP request. Twisted Web doesn't care where the string came from.
And if you do want to do something with Django (or another WSGI-based system), then you can certainly deploy this in your Twisted process using Twisted Web's WSGI support. And you can still interact between the WSGI applications and the rest of your Twisted code, as long as you exercise a little care - WSGI applications run in a thread pool, and Twisted APIs are not thread-safe, you have to invoke them with reactor.callFromThread or one of the small number of similar APIs (in particular, blockingCallFromThread is sometimes a useful higher-level tool to use).

At this point Nevow is definitively dead. As illustration of how dead it is, there is a bug that prevents installation of Nevow using pip, which was fixed on trunk in 2009, but it isn't in any release because there has been no release since then.
twisted.web and in particular twisted.web.template cover pretty much all of what was useful in Nevow, and should be used for any new project that was considering using Nevow.

Please point to the right webdev tools

I'm making a simple web app where I have some simple python scripts that do the text crunchin g I need - but I'm not quite sure how to interface it with a client who'd only want to see some HTML forms.
There's so many different server side frameworks out there - but I don't think I need anything too heavy duty - just a mechanism to accept data from the forms that the user fills in, and feed it to my Python code and back.
Could someone suggest what tools I should look into and what design paradigms I should follow? Simple pointers to different references around the web with a single line about their significance would also help.
Best.

At the moment, the best lightweight and yet very powerful framework for python IMO is Flask. If you want form abstraction there is a WTFlask plugin for it which is WTForms adapted for flask - http://flask.pocoo.org/.
Web2py is also a very good framework for starters because it has helpers and wizards for creating/running an application, and also has something like an admin interface, offering an On-line IDE functionality. - http://www.web2py.com/
I proposed these two frameworks because you can start fast with them, they both have good documentation, both are powerful yet easy and they are pretty friendly for beginners.

Not normally supported with cheap hosting, but mod_python on apache might be right up your alley.
You could also have html talk to python through cgi (Which has been the way of doing it for years before php came along).
The standard Design pattern commonly seen in web apps is Model-View-Controller, so google around.

I've used Django (heavy and something of a non-trivial initial learning curve), and web.py (very small & simple), and over the past year, I've been pretty happy using tornado.
People can argue about the async details, but that's not even why I use it. It's pretty fast, it's super quick to get started with, it comes with examples that get you doing things quickly, and -- most important to me -- It's a web server and framework in one, which means you don't have to muck with mod_python vs mod_wsgi vs cgi vs fcgi vs whatever. Deployment is really easy.

Architecting from scratch in Python: what to use?

I'm lucky enough to have full control over the architecture of my company's app, and I've decided to scrap our prototype written in Ruby/Rails and start afresh in Python. This is for a few reasons: I want to learn Python, I prefer the syntax and I've basically said "F**k it, let's do it."
So, baring in mind this is going to be a pretty intensive app, I'd like to hear your opinions on the following:
Generic web frameworks
ORM/Database Layer (perhaps to work with MongoDB)
RESTful API w/ oAuth/xAuth authentication
Testing/BDD support
Message queue (I'd like to keep this in Python if possible)
The API is going to need to interface with a Clojure app to handle some internal data stuff, and interface with the message queue, so if it's not Python it'd be great to have some libraries to it.
TDD/BDD is very important to me, so the more tested, the better!
It'll be really interesting to read your thoughts on this. Much appreciated.
My best,
Jamie

Frameworks
OK, so I'm a little biased here as I currently make extensive use of Django and organise the Django User Group in London so bear that in mind when reading the following.
Start with Django because it's a great gateway drug. Lots of documentation and literature, a very active community of people to talk to and lots of example code around the web.
That's a completely non-technical reason. Pylons is probably purer in terms of Python philosophy (being much more a collection of discrete bits and pieces) but lots of the technical stuff is personal preference, at least until you get into Python more. Compare the very active Django tag on Stack Overflow with that of pylons or turbogears though and I'd argue getting started is simply easier with Django irrespective of anything to do with code.
Personally I default to Django, but find that an increasing amount of time I actually opt for writing using simpler micro frameworks (think Sinatra rather than Rails). Lots of things to choose from (good list here, http://fewagainstmany.com/blog/python-micro-frameworks-are-all-the-rage). I tend to use MNML (because I wrote parts of it and it's tiny) but others are actively developed. I tend to do this for small, stupid web services which are then strung together with a Django project in the middle serving people.
Worth noting here is appengine. You have to work within it's limitations and it's not designed for everything but it's a great way to just play with Python and get something up and working quickly. It makes a great testbed for learning and experimentation.
Mongo/ORM
On the MongoDB front you'll likely want to look at the basic python mongo library ( http://api.mongodb.org/python/ ) first to see if it has everything you need. If you really do want something a little more ORM like then mongoengine (http://hmarr.com/mongoengine/) might be what you're looking for. A bunch of folks are also working on making Django specifically integrate more seamlessly with nosql backends. Some of that is for future Django releases, but django-norel ( http://www.allbuttonspressed.com/projects/django-nonrel) has code now.
For relational data SQLAlchemy ( http://www.sqlalchemy.org/) is good if you want something standalone. Django's ORM is also excellent if you're using Django.
API
The most official Oauth library is python-oauth2 ( http://github.com/simplegeo/python-oauth2), which handily has a Django example as part of it's docs.
Piston ( http://bitbucket.org/jespern/django-piston/wiki/Home) is a Django app which provides lots of tools for building APIs. It has the advantage of being pretty active and well maintained and in production all over the place. Other projects exist too, including Dagny ( http://zacharyvoase.github.com/dagny/) which is an early attempt to create something akin to RESTful resources in Rails.
In reality any Python framework (or even just raw WSGI code) should be reasonably good for this sort of task.
Testing
Python has unittest as part of it's standard library, and unittest2 is in python 2.7 (but backported to previous versions too http://pypi.python.org/pypi/unittest2/0.1.4). Some people also like Nose ( http://code.google.com/p/python-nose/), which is an alternative test runner with some additional features. Twill ( http://twill.idyll.org/) is also nice, it's a "a simple scripting language for Web browsing", so handy for some functional testing. Freshen ( http://github.com/rlisagor/freshen) is a port of cucumber to Python. I haven't yet gotten round to using this in anger, but a quick look now suggests it's much better than when I last looked.
I actually also use Ruby for high level testing of Python apps and apis because I love the combination of celerity and cucumber. But I'm weird and get funny looks from other Python people for this.
Message Queues
For a message queue, whatever language I'm using, I now always use RabbitMQ. I've had some success with stompserver in the past but Rabbit is awesome. Don't worry that it's not itself written in Python, neither is PostgresSQL, Nginx or MongoDB - all for good reason. What you care about are the libraries available. What you're looking for here is py-amqplib ( http://barryp.org/software/py-amqplib/) which is a low level library for talking amqp (the protocol for talking to rabbit as well as other message queues). I've also used Carrot ( http://github.com/ask/carrot/), which is easier to get started with and provides a nicer API. Think bunny in Ruby if you're familiar with that.
Environment
Whatever bits and pieces you decide to use from the Python ecosystem I'd recommend getting to who pip and virtualenv ( http://clemesha.org/blog/2009/jul/05/modern-python-hacker-tools-virtualenv-fabric-pip/ - note that fabric is also cool, but not essential and these docs are out of date on that tool). Think about using Ruby without gem, bundler or rvm and you'll be in the right direction.

Ok, you might be making a mistake, the same one I made when I started with python.
Before you decide on a thing like django, which is an excellent, yet atypical python web framework, spend an night cuddled up with:
This, is a good start. Make sure you do A little Werkzeug watching , Then check out
some classic WebOb. Maybe, if you feel the fire in the blood, and you might, wsgi is a bit flawed, but only to the gods, check out Flask
I'm not saying use it, Django is beautiful too, but if you don't know python, and you go through django, you run the risk of learning a framework.
WSGI is super straightforward. You'll find out about Paste, and Pastescript, and Pylons.
Then, make your decision. It'll be much easier learning stuff doing bare bones wsgi or Flask, stuff like variable assignment, using the interpreter, style concerns, testing, on 3 files for a couple of nights, instead of django. Take 2 nights. Then you'll see the great similarity between python web frameworks, instead of the differences. Hell, you might even roll with Flask.
Just some advice, I did the same thing with ruby, going in through Rails, and... well, strong words were said.
Language, then basic wsgi and testing, then pick your framework and roll

I'm new to python myself, and plan to get more in depth with it this year. I've had a few false starts at this, but always professional needs bring me back to PHP. The few times I've done some development, I've had really good experiences with web2py as a python framework. It's quite well done, and complete in features, while still being extremely lightweight. The database layer seems to be very flexible and mature.
As for TDD/BDD and the rest of your questions, I don't have any experience with python options, but would be interested to hear what others say.

I am using Twisted Framework based Nevow library for python based web app.
All your criteria fit into this single framework.

Using python to build web applications

This is a follow-up to two questions I asked a week or so back. The upshot of those was that I was building a prototype of an AI-based application for the web, and I wondered what language(s) to use. The conclusion seemed to be that I should go for something like python and then convert any critical bits into something faster like Java or C/C++.
That sounds fine to me, but I'm wondering now whether python is really the right language to use for building a web application. Most web applications I've worked on in the past were C/C++ CGI and then php. The php I found much easier to work with as it made linking the user interface to the back-end so much easier, and also it made more logical sense to me.
I've not used python before, but what I'm basically wondering is how easy is CGI programming in python? Will I have to go back to the tedious way of doing it in C/C++ where you have to store HTML code in templates and have the CGI read them in and replace special codes with appropriate values or is it possible to have the templates be the code as with php?
I'm probably asking a deeply ignorant question here, for which I apologise, but hopefully someone will know what I'm getting at! My overall question is: is writing web applications in python a good idea, and is it as easy as it is with php?

Python is a good choice.
I would avoid the CGI model though - you'll pay a large penalty for the interpreter launch on each request. Most Python web frameworks support the WSGI standard and can be hooked up to servers in a myriad of ways, but most live in some sort of long-running process that the web server communicates with (via proxying, FastCGI, SCGI, etc).
Speaking of frameworks, the Python landscape is ripe with them. This is both good and bad. There are many fine options but it can be daunting to a newcomer.
If you are looking for something that comes prepackaged with web/DB/templating integration I'd suggest looking at Django, TurboGears or Pylons. If you want to have more control over the individual components, look at CherryPy, Colubrid or web.py.
As for whether or not it is as "easy as PHP", that is subjective. Usually it is encouraged to keep your templates and application logic separate in the Python web programming world, which can make your life easier. On the other hand, being able to write all of the code for a page in a PHP file is another definition of "easy".
Good luck.

"how easy is CGI programming in python?" Easier than C, that's for sure. Python is easier because -- simply -- it's an easier language to work with than C. First and foremost: no memory allocation-deallocation. Beyond that, the OO programming model is excellent.
Beyond the essential language simplicity, the Python WSGI standard is much easier to cope with than the CGI standard.
However, raw CGI is a huge pain when compared with the greatly simplified world of an all-Python framework (TurboGears, CherryPy, Django, whatever.)
The frameworks impose a lot of (necessary) structure. The out-of-the-box experience for a CGI programmer is that it's too much to learn. True. All new things are too much to learn. However, the value far exceeds the investment.
With Django, you're up and running within minutes. Seriously. django-admin.py startproject and you have something you can run almost immediately. You do have to design your URL's, write view functions and design page templates. All of which is work. But it's less work than CGI in C.
Django has a better architecture than PHP because the presentation templates are completely separated from the processing. This leads to some confusion (see Syntax error whenever I put python code inside a django template) when you want to use the free-and-unconstrained PHP style on the Django framework.
linking the user interface to the back-end
Python front-end (Django, for example) uses Python view functions. Those view functions can contain any Python code at all. That includes, if necessary, modules written in C and callable from Python.
That means you can compile a CLIPS module with a Python-friendly interface. It becomes something available to your Python code with the import statement.
Sometimes, however, that's ineffective because your Django pages are waiting for the CLIPS engine to finish. An alternative is to use something like a named pipe.
You have your CLIPS-based app, written entirely in C, reading from a named pipe. Your Django application, written entirely in Python, writes to that named pipe. Since you've got two independent processes, you'll max out all of your cores pretty quickly like this.

I would suggest Django, but given that you ask for something "as easy as it is with php" then you must take a look at PSP (Python Server Pages).
While Django is a complete framework for doing websites, PSP can be used in the same way than PHP, without any framework.

It is easier to write web-apps in python than it's in php. Particularly because python is not a broken language.
Pick up some web framework that supports mod_wsgi or roll out your own. WSGI apps are really easy to deploy after you get a hold from doing it.
If you want templates then genshi is about the best templating engine I've found for python and you can use it however you like.