I'm currently using renpy and I want to access some features of the native NSWindow API (and eventually the win32 equivalent but I'm starting with the machine I'm using.) However PyObjC doesn't seem to be compatible, presumably because renpy's python implementation is not CPython, but I don't truly know. I asked in the discord and basically got a shrug so as a hail mary I'm gonna throw this question out to the people of stackoverflow:
Is there a way to access native APIs, like cocoa and win32, from renpy?
Ren'Py is only compatible with libraries written in pure Python, so it's not possible at this point. PyObjC uses more than just Python.
Related
I have build a bunch of python modules for controlling miscellaneous hardware over TCP. All is written for cPython (no .NET capabilities, as far as I understand).
I want to add a new instrument to the pool that comes with a .NET API. See here.
From the distributer of the API, only ironPython is mentioned as option for interfacing with the instrument.
I have no experience with .NET framework or ironPython, so I'm not sure what other options I might have (if any) and which suits my needs best.
My needs are:
I want to use all my old cPython based modules along side with the new instrument and its .NET based API.
Staying in "normal" python would be the most elegant solution to me - but I'm really open for suggestions.
I've ended up porting my modules from cPython to ironPython.
This seemed to be a fairly straightforward job, and I'm pretty happy with the comparability.
This question already has an answer here:
Closed 11 years ago.
Possible Duplicate:
Calling Python from Objective-C
I'm a long-time Python programmer and short-time Cocoa programmer. I'm just getting started with PyObjC and it's really amazing how easy it it is to get stuff done. That said, I wanted to try using pure ObjC for my controller with PyObjC models. I might be enjoy letting Python be Python and Objective-C be Objective-C. I figured it was worth a try, anyways.
Except I can't figure out or find anything about how to call Python from Objective-C, only the other way around. Can someone point me to any resources on this? (Maybe it's on the PyObjC site but I just don't know what I'm looking for?)
Edit: I'm most interested, at the basic level, in being able to call a Python module and get some native ObjC data types back.
There are several possible approaches. The most tempting is to use py2app to compile a loadable bundle from your python code from which you can access the principal class using NSBundle. Unfortunately, this use case hasn't gotten much love from the py2app developers, and I've found several bugs in 10.5 and 10.6, including a rather nasty memory leak when passing data from python back in to Objective-C. I wouldn't recommend using py2app at thist point.
The second approach is invert the embedding. Write a Python cocoa app and load your Objective-C code from a bundle at startup (even in main()). If you already have a large Objective-C app, this may take a bit of work. The only downside, that I'm ware of, is that you won't be able to use GC in your Objective-C code, but this is really a universal limitation in working with PyObjC.
Finally, you can instantiate a python interpreter in your Objective-C code to load your python code. This is obviously more involved, but may the best option if you already have a large Objective-C codebase into which you want to inject your python code. The main.m file from the Python-Cococa application template in Xcode is a good place to start to see this in action.
Whoops, guess I should've searched a bit more:
Calling Python from Objective-C
I'm starting to study Python, and for now I like it very much. But, if you could just answer a few questions for me, which have been troubling me, and I can't find any definite answers to them:
What is the relationship between Python's C implementation (main version from python.org) and IronPython, in terms of language compatibility ? Is it the same language, and do I by learning one, will be able to smoothly cross to another, or is it Java to JavaScript ?
What is the current status to IronPython's libraries ? How much does it lags behind CPython libraries ? I'm mostly interested in numpy/scipy and f2py. Are they available to IronPython ?
What would be the best way to access VB from Python and the other way back (connecting some python libraries to Excel's VBA, to be exact) ?
1) IronPython and CPython share nearly identical language syntax. There is very little difference between them. Transitioning should be trivial.
2) The libraries in IronPython are very different than CPython. The Python libraries are a fair bit behind - quite a few of the CPython-accessible libraries will not work (currently) under IronPython. However, IronPython has clean, direct access to the entire .NET Framework, which means that it has one of the most extensive libraries natively accessible to it, so in many ways, it's far ahead of CPython. Some of the numpy/scipy libraries do not work in IronPython, but due to the .NET implementation, some of the functionality is not necessary, since the perf. characteristics are different.
3) Accessing Excel VBA is going to be easier using IronPython, if you're doing it from VBA. If you're trying to automate excel, IronPython is still easier, since you have access to the Execl Primary Interop Assemblies, and can directly automate it using the same libraries as C# and VB.NET.
What is the relationship between
Python's C implementation (main
version from python.org) and
IronPython, in terms of language
compatibility ? Is it the same
language, and do I by learning one,
will be able to smoothly cross to
another, or is it Java to JavaScript ?
Same language (at 2.5 level for now -- IronPython's not 2.6 yet AFAIK).
What is the current status to
IronPython's libraries ? How much does
it lags behind CPython libraries ? I'm
mostly interested in numpy/scipy and
f2py. Are they available to IronPython
?
Standard libraries are in a great state in today's IronPython, huge third-party extensions like the ones you mention far from it. numpy's starting to get feasible thanks to ironclad, but not production-level as numpy is from IronPython (as witnessed by the 0.5 version number for ironclad, &c). scipy is huge and sprawling and chock full of C-coded and Fortran-coded extensions: I have no first-hand experience but I suspect less than half will even run, much less run flawlessly, under any implementation except CPython.
What would be the best way to access
VB from Python and the other way back
(connecting some python libraries to
Excel's VBA, to be exact) ?
IronPython should make it easier via .NET approaches, but CPython is not that far via COM implementation in win32all.
Last but not least, by all means check out the book IronPython in Action -- as I say every time I recommend it, I'm biased (by having been a tech reviewer for it AND by friendship with one author) but I think it's objectively the best intro to Python for .NET developers AND at the same time the best intro to .NET for Pythonistas.
If you need all of scipy (WOW, but that's some "Renaissance Man" computational scientist!-), CPython is really the only real option today. I'm sure other large extensions (PyQt, say, or Mayavi) are in a similar state. For deep integration to today's Windows, however, I think IronPython may have an edge. For general-purpose uses, CPython may be better (esp. thanks to the many new features in 2.6), unless you're really keen to use many cores to the hilt within a single process, in which case IronPython (which is GIL-less) may prove advantageous again.
One way or another (or even on the JVM via Jython, or in peculiar environments via PyPy) Python is surely an awesome language, whatever implementation(s) you pick for a given application!-) Note that you don't need to stick with ONE implementation (though you should probably pick one VERSION -- 2.5 for maximal compatibility with IronPython, Jython, Google App Engine, etc; 2.6 if you don't care about any deployment options except "CPython on a machine under my own sole or virtual control";-).
IronPython version 2.0.2, the current release, supports Python 2.5 syntax. With the next release, 2.6, which is expected sometime over the next month or so (though I'm not sure the team have set a hard release date; here's the beta), they will support Python 2.6 syntax. So, less Java to JavaScript and more Java to J# :-)
All of the libraries that are themselves written in Python work pretty much perfectly. The ones that are written in C are more problematic; there is an open source project called Ironclad (full disclosure: developed and supported by my company), currently at version 0.8.5, which supports numpy pretty well but doesn't cover all of scipy. I don't think we've tested it with f2py. (The version of Ironclad mentioned below by Alex Martelli is over a year old, please avoid that one!)
Calling regular VB.NET from IronPython is pretty easy -- you can instantiate .NET classes and call methods (static or instance) really easily. Calling existing VBA code might be trickier; there are open source projects called Pyinex and XLW that you might want to take a look at. Alternatively, if you want a spreadsheet you can code in Python, then there's always Resolver One (another one from my company... :-)
1) The language implemented by CPython and IronPython are the same, or at most a version or two apart. This is nothing like the situation with Java and Javascript, which are two completely different languages given similar names by some bone-headed marketing decision.
2) 3rd-party libraries implemented in C (such as numpy) will have to be evaluated carefully. IronPython has a facility to execute C extensions (I forget the name), but there are many pitfalls, so you need to check with each library's maintainer
3) I have no idea.
CPython is implemented by C for corresponding platform, such as Windows, Linux or Unix; IronPython is implemented by C# and Windows .Net Framework, so it can only run on Windows Platform with .Net Framework.
For gramma, both are same. But we cannot say they are one same language. IronPython can use .Net Framework essily when you develop on windows platform.
By far, July 21, 2009 - IronPython 2.0.2, our latest stable release of IronPython, was released. you can refer to http://www.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?ProjectName=IronPython.
You can access VB with .Net Framework function by IronPython. So, if you want to master IronPython, you'd better learn more .Net Framework.
We have an existing C# project based on NHibernate and WPF. I am asked to convert it to Linux and to consider other implementation like Python. But for some reason, they like NHibernate a lot and want to keep it.
Do you know if it's possible to keep the NHibernate stuff and make it work with Python ? I am under the impression that NHibernate is glue code between C# and the DB, so can not be exported to other languages.
Alternative question: can somebody recommend a good python compatible replacement of NHibernate ? The backend DB is Oracle something.
NHibernate is not specific to C#, but it is specific to .NET.
IronPython is a .NET language from which you could use NHibernate.
.NET and NHibernate can run on Linux through Mono. I'm not sure how good Mono's support is for WPF.
I'm not sure if IronPython runs on Linux, but that would seem to be the closest thing to what you are looking for.
There is a Java version of NHibernate (said tongue in cheek) called Hibernate and there are integration points between Java and Python where Linux is very much supported.
I know the Python community has its own ORMs, but as far as I'm aware, those options are not as mature and feature rich as Hibernate/NHibernate.
I would imagine that almost all of the options available to you would support Oracle.
What about running your project under Mono on Linux? Mono seems to support NHibernate, which means you may be able to get away with out rewriting large chunks of your application.
Also, if you really wanted to get Python in on the action, you could use IronPython along with Mono.
SQLAlchemy is the most powerful ORM in Python so far.
Check out Django. They have a nice ORM and I believe it has tools to attempt a reverse-engineer from the DB schema.
The background
I'm building a fair-sized web application with a friend in my own time, and we've decided to go with the Django framework on Python. Django provides us with a lot of features we're going to need, so please don't suggest alternative frameworks.
The only decision I'm having trouble with, is whether we use Python or Jython to develop our application. Now I'm pretty familiar with Java and could possibly benefit from the libraries within the JDK. I know minimal Python, but am using this project as an opportunity to learn a new language - so the majority of work will be written in Python.
The attractiveness of Jython is of course the JVM. The number of python/django enabled web-hosts is extremely minimal - whereas I'm assuming I could drop a jython/django application on a huge variety of hosts. This isn't a massive design decision, but still one I think needs to be decided. I'd really prefer jython over python for the jvm accessibility alone.
Questions
Does Jython have many limitations compared to regular python? Will running django on jython cause problems? How quick is the Jython team to release updates alongside Python? Will Django work as advertised on Jython (with very minimal pre-configuration)?
Decision
Thanks for the helpful comments. What I think I'm going to do is develop in Jython for the JVM support - but to try to only use Python code/libraries. Portability isn't a major concern so if I need a library in the JDK (not readily available in python), I'll use it. As long as Django is fully supported, I'm happy.
Django does work on Jython, although you'll need to use the development release of Jython, since technically Jython 2.5 is still in beta. However, Django 1.0 and up should work unmodified.
So as to whether you should use the regular Python implementation or Jython, I'd say it's a matter of whether you prefer having all the Java libraries available or all of the Python libraries. At this point you can expect almost everything in the Python standard library to work with Jython, but there are still plenty of third-party packages which will not work, especially C extension modules. I'd personally recommend going with regular Python, but if you've got a ton of JVM experience and want to stick with what you know, then I can respect that.
As for finding Python hosting, this page might be helpful.
I'd say that if you like Django, you'll also like Python. Don't make the (far too common) mistake of mixing past language's experience while you learn a new one. Only after mastering Python, you'll have the experience to judge if a hybrid language is better than either one.
It's true that very few cheap hostings offer Django preinstalled; but it's quite probable that that will change, given that it's the most similar environment to Google's app engine. (and most GAE projects can be made to run on Django)
I have recently started working on an open source desktop project in my spare time. So this may not apply. I came to the same the question. I decided that I should write as much of the code as possible in python (and Django) and target all the platforms CPython, Jython, and IronPython.
Then, I decided that I would write plugins that would interface with libraries on different implementations (for example, different GUI libraries).
Why? I decided early on that longevity of my code may depend on targeting not only CPython but also virtual machines. For today's purposes CPython is the way to go because of speed, but who knows about tomorrow. If you code is flexible enough, you may not have to decide on targeting one.
The downside to this approach is that you will have more code to create and maintain.
Django is supposed to be jython-compatible sinc version 1.0.
This tutorial is a bit outdated, but from there you can see there are no special issues.